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月日の経つのは早いものだ。

From left to right, the first の marks a genitive case and the second one acts as a nominalizer. This means that the nominalized clause 経つの is being modified by 月日, forming a noun phrase 月日の経つの.

月日経つのは早いものだ。

lit. The passing of time is quick!

However, we could replace the first の with が, which changes the meaning a bit:

月日経つのは早いものだ。

lit. Time passing is quick!

Because of this, we may think that we have a relative clause although that would require a noun to modify. To be more precise, that would require the second の to be an indefinite pronoun, meaning something like "the one", which wouldn't make sense. 月日が経つの is simply a nominalized clause.


In short,

  • [[月日]{Noun}][[経つの]{Nominalized clause}] = [月日の経つの]{Noun Phrase}. The の in bold acts as a genitive case particle.
  • [[月日が経つ]{Clause}] = [月日が経つの]{Nominalized clause}. The の in bold acts as a nominalizer.

Where's the relative clause?


By the way, I think 速い is also possible because we're describing its "quickness".

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  • 1
    I get the feeling 速い is more for physical speed
    – Riolku
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 7:22
  • How about 早さ for a noun to replace の? It makes the sentence redundant, though.
    – aguijonazo
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 11:53
  • @aguijonazo Yes, I stand corrected in this aspect of my argument. I changed my post accordingly.
    – Nameless
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 16:15

3 Answers 3

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  1. 月日経つのは早いものだ。
  2. 月日経つのは早いものだ。

These sentences are syntactically exactly the same. Changing の to が doesn't change the meaning of the sentence a bit. The particles after 月日 are subject markers, and 月日{が/の}経つ is fundamentally a relative clause that modifies の (which is a noun).

Have you wondered why there is something called "ga-no conversion" in modern Japanese? You may believe が is the subject marker and の is the genitive case particle, but this distinction is rather new. In the past, these were almost the same particle. Both could mark a subject, and both could work as a possessive particle.

Although が and の have become very different in modern Japanese, this is why they are still interchangeable inside "relative clauses".

And the concept of "relative clauses" is a bit broader than the English equivalent. What you know as nominalizers and cleft sentences are actually a special type of relative clause! Ga-no conversion works also inside these constructions, as shown below (S = subject marker, A = attributive form of a verb/adjective/copula, N = modified noun):

  • 太陽S昇るANを見ていた。
    太陽S昇るANを見ていた。
    I was watching the sun rising.
  • S来るANは知らなかった。
    S来るANは知らなかった。
    S来るAことNは知らなかった。
    S来るAことNは知らなかった。
    I didn't know that he would come.
  • S知っているAことNを教えてください。
    S知っているAことNを教えてください。
    Please tell me what he knows.
  • 彼女S1読んだA1N1は表紙S2赤いA2N2です。
    彼女S1読んだA1N1は表紙S2赤いA2N2です。
    It is a red-covered book that she read. (cleft sentence)
  • 月日S1経つA1N1S2早いA2ことN2S3嫌いなA3理由N3S4分からないA4N4S5したA5質問N5
    月日S1経つA1N1S2早いA2ことN2S3嫌いなA3理由N3S4分からないA4N4S5したA5質問N5
    a question made by someone who doesn't understand the reason why some people dislike the fact that time passes quickly

Notice the S-A-N pattern seen consistently in these examples. Don't mix the の as a subject marker (marked with S) and の as a formal noun (marked with N).

So, after looking at these examples, haven't you started to think it's not very meaningful to treat one as a subject marker and the other as a genitive case particle? I'm not suggesting you should stop using the term nominalizer, but it's worth knowing all of these are ruled by the same principle.

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  • Thank you for your answer. "Haven't you started to think it's not very meaningful to treat one as a subject marker and the other as a genitive case particle?" Actually, in 月日の経つのは早いものだ, I treated the first one as a genitive case particle and the second one as a nominalizer. "[[月日]{Noun}] [[経つの]{Nominalized clause}] = [月日の経つの]{Noun Phrase}. The の in bold acts as a genitive case particle."
    – Nameless
    Commented Feb 1, 2022 at 4:59
  • @Nameless I know, so are you now satisfied with my argument in the first paragraph of my answer? I'm saying you shouldn't change how to parse this sentence based on which particle is used after 月日. How you want to call this type of clause in general is another story.
    – naruto
    Commented Feb 1, 2022 at 6:23
  • Love the use of superscript labels here, first time I’ve seen that! Commented Feb 1, 2022 at 16:23
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has the function of indicating subject (see #2 in the link), so both can be considered as Time passing is quick.

To me, 月日の経つのは... and 月日が... are both fine. In relative clauses modifying a noun, it is largely interchangeable even if one or the other can sound less idiomatic.

Examples:

  • 彼の書いた本を読んだ = 彼が書いた本を読んだ
  • 君の言うことはもっともだ = 君が言うことはもっともだ

'Counter-example' from here

  • Aさんが私に書いた地図 but ✕ Aさんの私に書いた地図

I think the Aさんの... version is still grammatical and acceptable, but definitely less common.


[Edit]

I think an (reverse) argument which won't be helpful for learners is that the second parsing is correct (or at least more natural) exactly because 月日が and 月日の are both possible.

Either way, the subject of 経つ is 月日 and the first parse won't change that and does not affect the meaning. (Kind of relevant: An English He insisted on my reading his new book, where my is semantically the subject of reading)

The case for 高田さんが使っていたのを覚えていますか is a bit different mainly because 使う is transitive. It is actually ambiguous between

  • Do you remember that Takada-san was using it?
  • Do you remember the one Takada-san was using?

In English, the bold it can't be omitted but in Japanese それを is omitted in the first reading. For this example 高田さんの... is possible but strongly suggests the second reading.


Regarding 早い/速い for time, both may be used, but my feeling is 早い being more common. Cf 時間が経つのは「早い」「速い」どっち?. After all, a day passes per day...

A general distinction is to use 早い for early and 速い for fast.

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  • Thank you for your answer, but I can't seem to find an example in your link following this pattern that says that the first の acts as the subject. Secondly, did you read the last part of my post? "Because of this, we may think that we have a relative clause although that would require a noun to modify. To be more precise, that would require the second の to be an indefinite pronoun, but this is not possible: try replacing it with another noun. 月日が経つの is simply a nominalized clause."
    – Nameless
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 16:00
  • One of the answers of forum I linked says that の in 経つの is a nominalizer: forum.wordreference.com/threads/…
    – Nameless
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 16:03
  • Lastly, the examples you're considering have a noun in place of の. Why don't you consider sentences like this? 高田さんが使っていたのを覚えていますか。
    – Nameless
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 16:05
  • I made an edit. Hopefully, I can get across what I mean.
    – Nameless
    Commented Jan 31, 2022 at 17:56
  • @Nameless Nominalized clauses are relative clauses that modify の/こと. That's why ga-no conversion still works in の-clauses and phrases like these. See this discussion. It's simplest to think those が and の are subject markers in relative clauses. Historically, の was a subject marker even outside relative clauses.
    – naruto
    Commented Feb 1, 2022 at 0:18
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Whether the article is が or の, native speakers see it this way.

[月日が/の経つ]の

Having said that, though, I think I know where your doubt is coming from.

Let’s consider the following example.

君が飲むのは分かる。

This sentence can be understood as meaning either of the following two.

I know {what/which/the one} you (are going to) drink.

I understand {that/why} you drink (something).

Now, look at the following sentence, where が is replaced with の.

君の飲むのは分かる。

This sentence sounds natural, at least in everyday conversation, only in the first sense. The second の is interpreted as an indefinite pronoun referring to a concrete thing, in this case a particular drink.

In the second interpretation of 君が飲むの, on the other hand, the final の means either “the fact” (こと) or “the reason” (理由) depending on the context. I suppose the reason 君飲むの sounds unnatural in this sense is that the association between 君 and that の (for こと or 理由) is not direct enough to be naturally connected with の.

In your example, the final の in 月日が/の経つの is understood as meaning something like “the way” (様子) or “the pace” (早さ). It is the way or pace of time, making the linking with の sound natural enough. In fact, you could say 月日の様子 or 月日の早さ, although what the first phrase means is not clear without the verb 経つ.

Let’s look at one more example.

君が怒るのは分かる。

Like the example with 飲む above, this sentence could also be understood in two ways, although most people would understand it in the second meaning unless context suggests otherwise.

I know {what/which/the one that} angers you.

I understand why you get angry.

Curiously, 君怒るの doesn’t sound quite natural even in the first sense. In the example with 飲む, the pronoun の represented a drink, and it was your drink (君の飲み物). In this example, however, it represents something external that causes a certain emotion in you. If we had to paraphrase it, it would become something like 怒らせるもの/やつ. I suppose this is too distant from 君 for the two to be naturally connected with の.


[Edit]

As I suggested at the beginning of this post, you should still read 月日の経つの in the following structure .

[月日の経つ]の(=様子/早さ)

Here, 月日 does work as the subject with respect to the verb 経つ much as in 月日が経つの. (There is no other function it can play within the brackets, after all.)

However, I think it would be fair to say that we do kind of feel the implicit association of 月日の様子/早さ transcending the boundary of the brackets. What I am claiming is that if this association cannot be felt, の may not sound as natural as が. This is also the case when the clause is long and の is far away from the modified noun (or nominalizer).

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  • 条件によりノがガほど自然にならない(あるいはノが使えない)場合があるのは分かりますが、結局元の質問の「How to parse」への答えとしては「月日の後のノは主語をマークしている」ということで良いのでしょうか。
    – naruto
    Commented Feb 1, 2022 at 6:01

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