What's the phonetic difference between toraianguru (トライアングル, the correct word in Japanese) and torayanguru (トラヤングル)? Do they both sound the same and it's purely a matter of orthography, or is there some deeper difference?
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3For me, not native: トラヤングル the YA seems a little harsh and over powering...– AthomSfereCommented Feb 2, 2016 at 20:31
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Related: Why do some loanword sounds get “contracted” when katakanized, but not others?.– istrasciCommented Feb 2, 2016 at 23:44
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I think トライヤングル is more possible than トラヤングル because there are similar examples as タイヤ, ダイヤモンド, ワイヤー, etc. However, there is neither.– ToshihikoCommented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:50
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2 Answers
In short, they don't sound the same: [ト]{to}[ラ]{ra}[イ]{i}[ア]{a}[ン]{n}[グ]{gu}[ル]{ru} sounds closer to the pronunciation of the English source term. The /aia/ vowel combination (as /a i a/) makes a clear analog of the English /aia/ pronunciation (as /aɪ æ/ for the i and a in the middle of triangle).
Meanwhile, [ト]{to}[ラ]{ra}[ヤ]{ya}[ン]{n}[グ]{gu}[ル]{ru} has no /ai/ combination at all, and doesn't sound as close to the English term.
(Musings: rather than [ト]{to}[ラ]{ra}[ヤ]{ya}[ン]{n}[グ]{gu}[ル]{ru}, a closer phonetic match might be [ト]{to}[ラ]{ra}[イ]{i}[エ]{e}[ン]{n}[グ]{gu}[ル]{ru}.)
answered Feb 2, 2016 at 22:03
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1That phonetic for 'triangle' might be true for America, but certainly not for (most parts of) Britain.– AngelosCommented Feb 2, 2016 at 23:48
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@Nothingatall -- If you mean the
/aɪ æ/for theiandain the middle of triangle, how would other British accents pronounce this? C.f. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/triangle#Pronunciation. Commented Feb 2, 2016 at 23:59 -
3The a in triangle is generally /a/ in British accents; トライアングル is perfect fit, whereas トライエングル would sound off.– AngelosCommented Feb 3, 2016 at 1:36
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2It's actually /æ/ in British accents. See the Longman Pronunciation Dictionary.– user1478Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 19:43
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@snailboat In traditional RP, yes, but most modern British accents have /a/.– AngelosCommented Feb 5, 2016 at 17:09
A part of the reason is nontransparent transcriptions are generally not approved in Japanese. The word triangle obviously splits up into tri + angle, thus we favor the spelling トライ{tri} + アングル{angle}, which reminds us of the original breakpoint. If English triangle should sound トラヤングル (while it doesn't to me), I don't think much people write it directly under today's convention.
The rule holds true even if syllable linking occurs, such as: ログ{log}イン{in}, キック{kick}オフ{off}, ポップ{pop}アップ{up} etc. There are indeed some usages in blogosphere that like ホッテントリ "hot entry" or プラギン "plugin", but they're all intended geekish slangs.
In this post @istrasci has suggested, you can see some exceptions like パイナップル{pineapple} and ラインナップ{lineup} (and ランナウェイ{runaway}, ワンナウト{one out} etc.), yet they're only allowed in n + vowel environment.
PS
I don't know if this is trivial enough, but, purely from Japanese standpoint, トライアングル and トラヤングル would not sound the same. The former is seven morae long, the latter six.
answered Feb 5, 2016 at 16:32
