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Firstly I have this sentence with のと; the context being a girl helping a boy with a math problem that he got wrong. She is literally sitting next to him and says:

でここはマイナスかけるマイナスになるのと計算の順番を注意

At first I thought this was just the の that nominalizes the preceding clause and the conditional と which would mean something like, "Now, when this becomes a negative times a negative, watch out for the calculation order." However, it just felt weird to think of it like that because it just sounds generally odd and also I'm not sure what the point of having の there would be if it's a conditional. Anyhow, this lead me to wonder if this のと was working somewhat like から, denoting a cause/effect and is to mean "because" or "so"; making the sentence to mean, "Now, this becomes a negative times a negative so watch out for the calculation order." I did find this answer on here, which gave me some confidence that I'm right but I'd like it if someone could confirm it.

Second, I have these sentences with the other two "issues"; the context here is that the speaker who is 先生, brings her students to her family's rice field for the day instead of class. The students look uninterested and then 先生 says:

今日はこちらの田んぼお手伝いをしてもらいます。まぁこちらと言っても先生とこの田んぼですが。あっ違う違う!別にバイトを雇うお金がないとか、先生が家の手伝いするのがめんどいとかだから生徒に労働させてるってわけじゃなくてね

I'm not quite sure what sort of nuance とこ adds to the meaning when 先生の田んぼ would already mean, "teacher's rice field". In addition, I'm having a little bit of trouble parsing this, and I'm not sure whether or not 別に is modifying めんどい. I thought it was at first glance (which made me wonder why it's not めんどくない) but, as I have been typing out this question I think I'm realizing that it's not. That being said, I did find this answer, and it seems to indicate that 別に implies a negative. But now, I'm just thinking 別に is only modifying お金がない. Even though I think I'm starting to actually see how this sentence works, if someone could break it down and show me how I should parse it, that would be great.

Also, my attempted translation for those sentences: Today I'll have you help me with this rice field. Well, even if say, "this", it's Sensei's (my) rice field... Oh it's not what you think! It's not particularly that we don't have the money to hire a part timer or because it's troublesome for Sensei to help with the house, so it's not like I'm making (you) students work (because of that). I actually think this translation is pretty much correct (other than no translation for とこ), however I think I am getting to this conclusion based on an intuition of what makes sense in the context and the words used on a whole, rather than fully parsing and understanding (if that makes sense).

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  • I mean for とこ, I already understand that it's a shorter version of ところ and in the reference you listed, it's qualified by a verb which makes sense to me. I meant to say, what does it add to the meaning when coming after a pronoun, proper noun or any noun that is itself a title. Like would 先生とこの田んぼ mean, "Rice field of teacher's place/area"? Also with the のと are you thinking it means "and" in this context too? It just sounds so odd/unnatural and different wording to connect each clause would clearly be more suitable. I suppose it sounded somewhat strange the first reference to のと you listed.
    – levikara
    May 18, 2023 at 0:06

1 Answer 1

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That の is a nominalizer. It can be replaced with こと in this particular sentence.

と connects マイナスかけるマイナスになるの and 計算の順番 as “and.” It might have been better balanced if the latter also ended with a nominalizer, like 計算の順番が変わるの (or こと).

先生とこ is for 先生のところ. You can say 先生のとこ or 先生んとこ, too. This ところ should be understood as “family” or “household.” 先生の田んぼ would be most likely understood as a rice field owned by the teacher herself.

別に modifies わけじゃなくて.

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  • Thanks for the response. Two quick questions, you were saying it would be better balanced if the second clause also ended with nominalizer, but I don’t know how that would help the balance? Also 別に is modifying わけじゃなくて? I was actually thinking it was modifying just お金がない… I mean I have no issue with that but what about that sentence constitutes it modifying わけじゃなくて as opposed to お金がない?
    – levikara
    May 20, 2023 at 9:52
  • @levikara - マイナスかけるマイナスになるの refers to a particular phenomenon you should be aware of while 計算の順番 is a general concept. What you have to be aware of is it being different from the normal order, requiring special attention, etc. in the equation at hand. A pair feels better balanced when it consists of two things in the same category. 別にお金がない makes little sense while 別に〜わけではない is a common collocation.
    – aguijonazo
    May 21, 2023 at 4:51

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