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Context: Riku is a boxer of Baba gym. Tokorozawa is a retired boxer of Baba gym. Ishigami is a retired boxer of an unmentioned gym. Tokorozawa beat Ishigami in the past. Recently, Tokorozawa asked a favour to Ishigami. Now also Riku is taking advantage of Ishigami's help. When Riku asks Ishigami about the match with Tokorozawa, Ishigami says:

なんで馬場ジムはどいつもこいつも負かした俺を頼りにしてくんだか…　所沢君に続いて

負かす is a transitive verb, so I think 負かした俺 means "me who beat". From this sentence it looks like it was Ishigami that beat someone from Baba gym. Who is the subject and object of 負かした? Could you explain how this relative clause works?

Could you also confirm that どいつもこいつも is the subject of 頼りにしてく?

Here you can see the original page (Ishigami is the man with the shaven head).

Thank you for your help!

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    "that どいつもこいつも is the subject of 頼りにしてく?" -- how come?
    – macraf
    Commented Feb 1, 2020 at 18:58
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    @macraf Ishigami fought only against one boxer from Baba gym (Tokorozawa), so I don't see how "all/everyone" could refer to 負かした. I rather thought it could be the subject of 頼りにしてく, meaning "all of boxers from Baba gym keep asking for my support". Anyway, I am not sure about this, otherwise I wouldn't have asked for confirmation.
    – Marco
    Commented Feb 1, 2020 at 20:04
  • I don't see how "all/everyone" could refer to "all boxers from Baba gym". Unless Tokorozawa and Riku were the only members. Anyway, I am not sure about this.
    – macraf
    Commented Feb 1, 2020 at 21:39
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    Related? japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/60895/…
    – Mauro
    Commented Feb 1, 2020 at 22:39
  • Yes I was about to post that link :)
    – naruto
    Commented Feb 18, 2020 at 2:10

1 Answer 1

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「なんで馬場{ばば}ジムはどいつもこいつも負{ま}かした俺{おれ}を頼{たよ}りにしてくんだか…　所沢君{ところざわくん}に続{つづ}いて・・」

You are reading the 「負かした俺」 part the other way around. The one who has been beaten is the speaker and the one who beat the speaker is 馬場ジム (or someone from that gym).

「所沢君に続いて」 means 「所沢君に続いて君までも」, which is what the speaker refers to by 「どいつもこいつも」. 「どいつもこいつも」 is certainly often translated as "everyone", but that is only the "figurative everyone".

In reality, 「どいつもこいつも」 is used when more than one person are doing the same (kind of) thing. Furthermore, in emphatic or exaggerated speech, we quite often use 「どいつもこいつも」 to refer to just one person when we have a strongly negative feeling about his/her action.

Could you also confirm that どいつもこいつも is the subject of 頼りにしてくる?

Exactly, it is. 「頼りにしてくる」 is the only "real" verb there since 「負かした」 is used within a relative clause.

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  • Thank you for your answer, especially the extra info on どいつもこいつも. Could you elaborate on "reading the「負かした俺」 part the other way around"? Isn't this kind of relative clauses ambiguous as explained in this answer? Is context the only thing that can disambiguate them? Could 負かす be replaced with 負かされた to make the sentence less ambiguous? Thank you!
    – Marco
    Commented Feb 4, 2020 at 23:05
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    @Marco, Yes, it's the kind of ambiguous relative clause in that answer. And yes, the context is the only key. 負けた俺を or 負かされた俺を would also make sense, but 負かした俺を more clearly expresses （他の選手じゃなくて）馬場ジムの選手が負かした, and also adds a nuance of 負かしておきながら頼ってくる.
    – chocolate ♦
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 6:04

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