As I understand fo now 第 [dai-] and 目 [-me] both turn 5 to fifth.
五匹の犬 [go-hiki no inu] five dogs
五匹目の犬 [go-hiki-me no inu] the fifth dog
Here everything is clear.
Articles and books say you have to use counters in Japanese.
匹 is counter for small and middle-sized animals.
Manuals say, that you can not use numbers without counters
五目犬 [gome inu] the fith dog - illegal
五犬目 [go inu me] the fith dog - illegal
They say, that you must use some counter here like this.
五匹目の犬 [go-hiki-me no inu] the fith dog - legal old school, classics
Ok, everything is clear to me.
But here comes 第 [dai]...
- (Opt-1) 第五犬 [dai go inu] the fifth dog
- (Opt-2) 第五の犬 [dai go no inu] the fifth dog
- (Opt-3) 第五匹の犬 [dai go-hiki no inu] the fifth dog
- (Opt-4) 第五匹目の犬 [dai go-hiki-me no inu] the fifth dog
OMG!!! WHAT THE HELL?!
- Q1: Which of these 4 options are legal?
- Q2: Does all 4 have sence?
- Q3: If yes, if there any difference between them?
- Q4: If Opt-1 is legal and ok why it is allowed to use numbers without counter?! In every article on counting there is info, that you always have to use counters. But what, if you use [dai] no counters for [inu] is allowed?!
第 [dai-] as [The fifth dog] vs [The dog #5]
I know, that 第五犬 have additional meaning for [Dog #5]
It is equvalent
- to 第5犬
- and to 五番の犬
- and to 5番の犬
As I understand all these "number"-forms does not relate to the "fifth dog"-meaning.
Therefore my questions are about [the fifth dog], not the [dog #5].
- Q5: What options in Japanese to say "the fifth dog #5"?
- (Opt-F5-1) 第五第五犬 [dai go dai go inu] the fifth dog #5
- (Opt-F5-2) 五匹目の第五犬 [go-hiki-me no dai go inu] the fifth dog #5
The meaning of the imaginary situation:
there are 5 dogs, each of them has #5 on the badge
we see the first dog #5
we see the second dog #5
and finally we see the fifth dog #5.
A screenshot from new anime "OVA Re: zero "Memory Snow" which shows example of using dai with counter but for some reason without の [no].
I thougt that の [no] MUST ALWAYS go after counter, but here we see real example without の [no].