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I'm a bit confused how different forms should be combined together.


Take 殴る (without tense, without ら抜き言葉) for example, correct me if I'm wrong,

(I) beat him up = 彼を殴る

(I am) beaten up by him = 彼に殴られる

(I can) beat him up = 彼を殴れる

(I) make him beat (someone) up = 彼に（誰かを）殴らせる


Then if I try to mix them up, these are what I'm really unclear about:

(I can/may) be beaten up by him = 彼に殴れられる

(I) don't allow him to beat (someone) up = 彼に（誰かを）殴らせない (?)

(I) want him to be beaten up (by someone) = ?? 俺は彼を（誰かに）殴らせられたい? sounds a bit weird to me?

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I would say...

(I can/may) be beaten up by him → 彼に殴られるかもしれない / 彼に殴られ[得]{う}る / 彼に殴られる可能性がある　

(I) don't allow him to beat (someone) up → 彼に(誰かを)殴らせない

(I) want him to be beaten up (by someone) → (俺は)彼に殴られてほしい
(or 誰かに彼を殴ってほしい lit. I want someone to beat him up)

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  • Why doesn't '(俺は)彼に殴られてほしい' mean '(I) want to be beaten up by him'? It sounds the same as '(俺は)彼に殴られたい' to me.
    – Frederick Zhang
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 7:10
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    同じじゃないです。。。　「彼に殴られたい」は "I want to be beaten by him" で、「彼に殴られてほしい」は "I want him to be beaten" (It can also mean "I want someone to be beaten by him")ですね。。。　 彼に殴ってほしい, "I want him to beat", could mean almost the same thing as 彼に殴られたい, "I want to be beaten by him". ... Compare: 「～たい」= "I want to do" VS 「～てほしい」= "I want someone to do"
    – chocolate ♦
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 7:14
  • Thanks, didn't know the difference between ほしい and たい. Btw, you gave different translations for the 1st and 3rd. Did you mean they were grammatically wrong or they just sounded weird to your? If they sounded weird, was it about the form per se or the word in my question? For example, ああ言うだけで 叩けられる のがある (just because of saying that one may be criticised), does it also appear to be weird?
    – Frederick Zhang
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 7:28
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    「殴れられる」 is incorrect, and 「殴らせられたい」 would mean "want to be forced to beat". "Just because of saying that, one may be criticized" 「ああ言うだけで、[叩]{たた}かれることがある」 (たたかれる is the passive form of たたく. 「～ことがある」"(can) happen sometimes/occasionally") or 「そう言うだけで、たたかれうる (叩かれ得る)。」とかね・・
    – chocolate ♦
    Commented Apr 30, 2019 at 7:37

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