2

2 related excepts from 月鏡 on に regarding location

(Ⅰ)動作・作用の成立に深く関わる場所を表す。

㋐存在の場所や所有する者を表す。「机の上に本がある」「母は部屋にいる」「この公園に砂場がない」「彼には子供が三人いる」「彼女には責任感が欠けている」 「?道ばたに犬が死ぬ」「?ベッドに男が眠る」のように、動詞だけでは「に」をとれないものでも、「ている」が付いたり、連体修飾語になったりすると、「道ばたに犬が死んでいる」「ベッドに眠る男」のように、「そこにそういう状態で ある/いる」という意味を表すものもある。


④動作・作用が行われる場や手段などを表す。…で。…にて。

㋐動作・作用が行われる場を表す。「駅前に待つ」「母校に会す」「会館に昼食する」

I'm not quite sure how to interpret "動詞だけでは「に」をとれないものでも" in the bolded section.

that aside, what i take from this first entry is that you need to either have the verb in ている form or have the verb attached to 体言 to establish where something is done 。「道ばたに犬が死んでいる」「ベッドに眠る男」

with the second entry, that is not required. 「駅前に待つ」「母校に会す」「会館に昼食する」

I don't see the difference between 「ベッドに男が眠る」and 「会館に昼食する」where 「ベッドに眠る男」or 「ベッドに男が眠っている」is necessary but 「会館に(男が)昼食する」is fine.

「ベッドに眠る男」= the man sleeping in the bed ✓

「会館に(男が)昼食する」= the man eats in the hall✓

「ベッドに男が眠る」 = the man sleeps in the bed.

「会館に昼食する(男)」= the man eating in the hall.

These should all be viable right?

Thank you

  • Are you perhaps citing 明鏡? – broccoli forest Nov 16 '18 at 7:18
  • yes, that's what the first line says :) – charu Nov 16 '18 at 8:14
  • Okay, re-read your first line ;) – broccoli forest Nov 16 '18 at 16:01
2

It seems to me that it's trying to say that even some instantaneous verbs that don't take に can be combined with it once conjugated into a form that stands for a static action (edited) or used in that meaning.

As it says, you can do it when the verb is used in a continuous meaning, in other words, if you express a situation where a man is sleeping in the bed as ベッドには男が眠る, which on the other hand sounds quite narrative, you can say that.

As for 「駅前に待つ」「母校に会す」「会館に昼食する」, those examples are archaic, or at least, old-fashioned. You can forget them.

  • where did you get the instantaneous part from? – charu Nov 16 '18 at 21:23
  • When you read the sentence, you can naturally interpret it. – user4092 Nov 16 '18 at 22:57
  • does that imply 公園に男が遊ぶ is wrong regardless of 公園に男が遊んでいる or 公園に遊ぶ男? – charu Nov 16 '18 at 23:13
  • 公園に遊ぶ is wrong anyway. But now that you mention it, it's not necessarily important if it's instantaneous or not. – user4092 Nov 17 '18 at 8:42

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