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I came across this english sentence tonight:

"The rebel and government groups held talks mediated by the UN."

Which I loosely translated as:

反乱の政府はUNで取り締まる会議を開催した。

Is using で the correct way to introduce secondary actors into a sentence or can が be used as well? Such as 反乱の政府はUNが取り締まる会議を開催した or ミキさんは神で/が作ったチョコを食べた。 (Micky ate chocolate made by God).

If が is not right, is there an ambiguity in the first sentence that the talks were being mediated at the UN rather than by the UN and how would I communicate explicitly that its the organisation of the UN doing the thing without using that particle?

2 Answers 2

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First, I think that you should use 反乱軍代表(者), 反乱代表(者), 反政府軍代表(者), etc. instead of just 反乱.

AのBは pattern is inappropriate for the first part. AとBは or simply inserting a comma between A and B would be correct (反乱代表 と 政府代表).

UN could also be 国連, the Japanese abbreviation for the UN, or the full Japanese name 国際連合.

As で is more colloquial, you should probably use the more literary にて in this case:

反乱代表者と政府代表者はUN(国際連合)の調停/仲裁/仲介にて会談を開催しました。

There is likely already a determined format for saying this in Japanese newspapers. I will yield to more Japanese newspaper savvy commentators on this subject.

Addressing your question about using が, it is allowable with a past indicative verb. For で/にて you would use the passive form:

「AさんはBさんが作ったチョコを食べました。」'Mr. A ate chocolate made by Mr. B.'

「AさんはBさんの秘伝レシピ で/にて 作られたチョコを食べました。」'Mr. A ate chocolate made using Mr. B's secret recipe.'


反乱代表と政府代表は国連が仲裁した会談を行いました。

反乱代表と政府代表は国連にて仲裁された会談を行いました。

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    AさんはBさん で/にて 作られたチョコを食べました。 sounds incorrect... (「Bさんで作られたチョコ」 sounds like "chocolate made of/from B-san".) It'd be fine if you said it as 「AさんはBさん (=によって)作られたチョコを食べました。」(chocolate made by B-san), or 「AさんはBさんの家で作られたチョコを食べました。」(chocolate made at B-san's)
    – chocolate
    Jan 27, 2018 at 4:14
  • 度々すみません。この状態でマシのかな...
    – BJCUAI
    Jan 27, 2018 at 5:34
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"The rebel and government groups..."

Literal 「反乱軍グループと政府グループ」 might be okay, but I think it can translate to 「反乱軍[側]{がわ}と政府[側]{がわ}」 (lit. "rebel side and government side").

"...held talks..."

I would translate it as 「[会談]{かいだん}を[行]{おこな}った。」

"... mediated by the UN."

Literally, 「[国連]{こくれん}[仲裁]{ちゅうさい}される~」 (using passive voice), or 「国連仲裁する~」「国連仲裁する」 ("~~ that the UN mediated") ... but I think it might sound more natural if you said it as 「国連の仲裁で」 ("with the UN's mediation").

Put together:

"The rebel and government groups held talks mediated by the UN."
「反乱軍側と政府側は、国連仲裁される会談を行った。」 (← literal, using passive)
「反乱軍側と政府側は、国連/仲裁する会談を行った。」 (← using active)
or 「反乱軍側と政府側は、国連の仲裁で会談を行った。」


Is using で the correct way to introduce secondary actors into a sentence or can が be used as well? Such as 反乱の政府はUNが取り締まる会議を開催した or ミキさんは神で/が作ったチョコを食べた。(Micky ate chocolate made by God).

I would say...

「国連/仲裁する(した)会談」 A talk that the UN mediates (mediated)
「国連(orによって/により)仲裁される(された)会談」 A talk that is (was) mediated by the UN
「神/作った(作る)チョコ」 Chocolate that God made (makes)
「神(orによって/により)作られた(作られる)チョコ」 Chocolate that was (is) made by God

Is で the primary way of introducing a modifying actor into a sentence? 

You'd use が or の to mark the subject in a relative clause.

で as a subject marker is used in limited contexts, eg:

当社負担いたします。
私どものほう処理させていただきます。

「~~仲裁する会談」「~~作ったチョコ」 would usually be used to say "A talk mediated at [place]" "Chocolate made at [place] / from [ingredients]".

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