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In this sentence そして、大人と同じ模様の子どもの浴衣や、子どもが着やすい浴衣をたくさん売っています from http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10010984931000/k10010984931000.html I have issues interpreting this と in ...大人と同じ... I also have prblems with や in ...浴衣や...

In full, I roughly translate the sentence like this: "Furthermore, they sell many yukatas of children and adults of identical figure and yukatas which children can easily wear."

I feel uncertain because 大人 seems to connect to の浴衣 via と. I don't know if that interpretation is correct. I also feel uncertain because や seems to connect the two sentence elements ...浴衣 and ...浴衣, but this can only work if my aforementioned interpretation of と is correct, so I'm not sure here either. I'm also confused because in my interpretation they are basically talking two times of yukata for children. This seems redundant and therefore I feel like its wrong.

EDIT: Could it also be that と translates to "with" here? "Furthermore, they sell many yukata of adults with yukata of children of identical patterns and yukata which children can easily wear."

I struggle with this because of onaji. The classification of onaji on http://jisho.org/search/onaji doesn't really help me feeling any more certain about the function I assigned to it in my translation above.

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Try reading the 大人 bit as [大人(の浴衣)と同じ模様の]子どもの浴衣, where I've added the abridged element in parenthesis, and used square brackets to block off the entire adjectival phrase that modifies the final 子どもの浴衣.

I think it might help if you think of と同じ as a set rather than look only at と.

The や is there two connects the two (examples of) different types of yukata aimed at children that are being sold. Basically, there are yukata for children with feature A, and other yukata for children with feature B.

Additional breakdown:

A: 大人(の浴衣) -> yukata for adults

B: 模様 -> pattern(s)

C: 子どもの浴衣 -> yukata for children

Therefore, yukata for children with the same patterns as the yukata for adults.

  • thanks a lot :) I made an edit to my question, could you have a look at it? :) – Narktor Jun 25 '17 at 13:27
  • @Narktor Try again! :) Bonus hint: Aと同じBのC is "C with the same B as A". – Philippe Jun 25 '17 at 13:57
  • "Furthermore, they sell yukata of adults with the same patterns as yukata of children." Yeah, that one makes the most sense ^^ But I still struggle a bit. ...模様の]子ども... translating this の into "as" is something I don't associate with the most typical function of の to make the preceding noun an attribute of the succeeding one. Using "as" is in the spectrum of a comparison. I must admit now that I'm very very poor in the constructions used for comparisons. For some reason they dont appear often in my textbook and they also were explained rather poorly when they were introduced. – Narktor Jun 25 '17 at 14:30
  • See if the additional breakdown I've added helps. The particle の can have many translations. You have to remember that it's role is to indicate that there's a relationship between the two nouns (clauses, whatever) its joining. Context and practice will help you identify what that relationship actually is. Still, based on this and other questions you've been asking, I think you may need to look for a better textbook! :) – Philippe Jun 25 '17 at 14:40
  • any suggestions for a new one, preferably in german, but if its in english I might consider it nonetheless :D – Narktor Jun 25 '17 at 14:42

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