While having Ghengis Khan with some dou-min, one of them asked for "biiru hitotsu". While I could understand the biiru, I was surprised that ippai wasn't used.

I understand that (number)-tsu is valid Japanese, but not why it was used in this particular case. Is using a more vague counter word more casual and relaxed, akin to saying "a beer, please" rather than "one glass of beer, please"? Or would "ippai" be confusing because of the phrase "o-naka wa ippai (desu)" being used to indicate you're full?

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    That should be "biiru hitotsu" – dainichi Feb 17 '12 at 3:57
  • I wonder if it would have something to do with the fact that the focus is more on "a beer that is a thing you can hold in your hand" (would be hitotsu) rather than "a beer that I am drinking/have drunk" (ippai). Like the difference between "There are two beers on the table" and "I went to the bar and had two beers". Or am I making things up? – silvermaple Feb 17 '12 at 5:04
  • @dainichi: yes. My bad. – Andrew Grimm Feb 17 '12 at 5:28
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    1. いっぱい (IPpai) "one glass" and いっぱい (ipPAI) "full" have different accents, so thay are not confusing. 2. お腹はいっぱいです is awkward. It should be お腹がいっぱいです. – user458 Feb 19 '12 at 20:30
  • @sawa: Thanks. Are the two forms of ippai etymologically related? – Andrew Grimm Feb 19 '12 at 22:32

This is pretty common in restaurants etc, both by staff and by customers.

I think it's just to make counting easier.

For example, ビール is counted with 杯{はい} when seved in a glass, but 本{ほん} when served in a bottle. If rice is served in a chawan, it would be 杯{はい}, but when served on a plate, it would be 皿{さら}.

So ~つ is just being used as a generic "X servings of ..."

  • I thought that only non-native speakers would regard counter words as an inconvenience. – Andrew Grimm Feb 19 '12 at 5:40
  • The fact that counter words are used is not seen as an inconvenience, but remembering and using the right one can be. – dainichi Feb 20 '12 at 1:36
  • @AndrewGrimm I can tell whether to say a sheet of paper, a cup of paper, a cake of paper, or a pair of paper. – user458 Feb 21 '12 at 0:05
  • @sawa: English may have something vaguely like counter words, but many of its counter words are nouns, akin to dollar in Japanese. Do you agree or disagree with Dainichi's claim that counter words would be inconvenient in a restaurant? – Andrew Grimm Feb 21 '12 at 0:59
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    @AndrewGrimm Japanese counter words are nouns as well (to the extent that you consider English counter words are nouns). I don't think dainichi is claiming that counter words are inconvenient at restaurants, nor do I think so. – user458 Feb 21 '12 at 2:01

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