Regarding the construction of a new bullet train line:

The construction cost from 敦賀 to 新大阪 is expected to be (some eye watering amount of money).

I can't understand the function of the で in bold. Can it be omitted? It seems to make sense to me without it.

  • But isn't it the straightforward way of using で? It is the construction that will take the money, not the line itself, and the construction will take money by way of (building the line) from A to B.
    – kroki
    Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 11:04

2 Answers 2


That で is part of a set phrase [purpose/item] で [price] かかる ("to cost [price] for/to [purpose]"). You can use に instead of で.

  • 1回の通話{で/に}30円かかる。 It takes 30 yen to make one call.
  • 1円玉を作るの{で/に}2円かかる。 Making a 1-yen coin costs 2 yen.
  • このスマホを製造するのに、CPUで30ドル、バッテリーで10ドルかかっています。
    It costs $30 for the CPU and $10 for the battery to manufacture this smartphone.

In your example, that で can be omitted but it feels more formal and a bit more natural to keep it.

  • I've got two quite different answers here. +1 to both of them, but I don't know which to accept. Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 13:55

In a nutshell you can pretend there is no で there. The meaning is the same.

I think its better to tackle all the siblings of まで at the same time.

There is a difference between までで,までに,まで and までは if まで is followed by an action verb. I am almost explaining raw what you can find in 日本語の作文技術〈新版〉 by 本多{ほんだ}勝一{かついち} page 224-225.

He takes the following example:


  • まで express the fact that an action is continuing. So the sentence with まで means Up until the train reached Nagoya he continued not to read the magazine.
  • What is before までに express a deadline. That means that the action (読むのを止める) took place before that deadline. Thus the sentence with までに means *He stopped reading the magazine at some point before the train reached Nagoya.
  • The point that in time before までで (here, 名古屋に着く) is the exact end point of the action. Thus, The sentence with までで means Exactly when the train reached Nagoya, he stopped reading the magazine.
  • The は of までは is a は of contrast between before and after reaching Nagoya. Thus, the sentence with までは means Until Nagoya I did not read but after reaching Nagoya but he probably did read after the train reached Nagoya.

Here かかる is not an action verb, so there is no difference in meaning. The only difference is that this で strengthen the fact that 新大坂 is the ending point.

  • I've got two quite different answers here. +1 to both of them, but I don't know which to accept. Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 13:55
  • 1
    @user3856370 My answer is quite generic, it may be useful in other contexts because it explains the difference between made/madeni/madede. On the other side, naruto's directly address your question about で~かかる so I think you should accept his. Commented Mar 19, 2017 at 14:24

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