知っているはずです is over complicated?

Question

I would like to ask, "How many kanji are you supposed to know?" My best guess was

（漢字を）何字知っているはずですか。 I omitted 漢字 since it was in context

This was reviewed by a native Japanese speaker and I had it corrected to 何字知っていますか with the explanation that the previous "is over complicated". However, I see no reason why the corrected sentence conveys the sense of "supposed" that I intended.

Could someone please verify that the previous question does indeed sound over complicated and perhaps provide a better way to ask that question (that conveys expectation rather than fact)?

Answer 1

I feel 何字知っているはずですか? is unnatural. I feel a question form of はずだ like はずですか? is unnatural, and the native Japanese speaker also would feel so. The reason why I feel it is unnatural is because はずだ indicates speaker's guess with conviction, so it would be unnatural to ask someone for it.

I think 何字知っているべきですか? and 何字知っていて当然ですか? are more natural.

Answer 2

The correction does not have the same meaning as the question in English, so I think your friend misunderstood what you wanted to ask (which is another reason to avoid はず here).

Even though はず can be translated as "supposed", it does not work well in this case. It is used when you have a reasonable expectation of something. E.g.:

日本人は約2000字の漢字を知っているはずです。
A Japanese is supposed to know around 2000 kanji.

I think something with -べき would work better here. Also, a more specific subject would make the question's purpose clearer, e.g.:

新聞を読めるには、何字を知っておくべきですか。
How many kanji one should learn to read newspapers?

Answer 3

何字知っているはずですか？ is good enough to make sense, but 何字知っているものですか？ might work better.

もの often refers to what is generally expected or practiced.

 - 多くの日本人は漢字を2000字くらい知っているものです。
 - この時間帯はいつもこんなに混むものですか？
 - 東京での宿泊はいくらぐらいかかるものですか？

Answer 4

I think there is no exact equivalent in Japanese for the expression "to be supposed to".
You can rephrase your sentence to "How many kanjis are necessary to know?"

どれぐらいの漢字を知る必要はありますか？

Answer 5

"はず" and "べき" are difficult to translate into English, and especially tricky, because they carry definitions that essentially mean the same thing. You can even see that the definitions use the other word!^{1 2}

べし

１ 当然の意を表す。…して当然だ。…のはずだ。[...]

---

はず【×筈／×弭／×彇】

㋐当然そうなるべき道理であることを示す。[...]

(Emphasis mine)

One reason why "べき" sounds better, is because it also has the meaning of "obligation" or "ought to",

５ 義務の意を表す。…しなければならない。[...]

as opposed to "はず" which more translates to an expectation of something being true or coming true.

---

Another way of phrasing what you want to say is to use "～なければいけない" or any equivalent, literally meaning "must". E.g.

覚えてなければいけない

---

1 - goo辞書 - べし

2 - goo辞書 - はず【×筈／×弭／×彇】

Answer 6

The construct「知っているはず」is somehow an expectation of the person speaking; i.e. it somehow conveys the feelings of the speaker (compare to 〜たい vs. 〜たがる for "want to". In Japanese, the point of view makes a big difference).

When you ask "How many Kanji is one supposed to know?", it is obviously not your expectation, but rather an expectation placed on you or someone you identify with. You are not the one supposing, but the one "supposed on"

That is why the "How many kanji would be good enough" approach works （e.g., 何字を知っていればいい？）