Placement of まで

Question

I was reading this, and maybe I'm just missing some common knowledge, but the following part of the sentence in question surprised me:

しかも付録までついてこれは買うしかない！！

Specifically, 「付録までついて」. I wonder why it's not 「付録ついてまで」? It seems to me that まで ("even") refers to 「付録ついて」 ("present included"). So why is it in the middle of what it is referring to? Or am I parsing it incorrectly perhaps?

If 「付録までついて」 and 「付録ついてまで」 are both correct, what is the difference between the two?

Answer 1

付録ついてまで買うしかない is wrong because te-form of a verb + てまで only works as an adverbial sub-clause which modifies the following verb. It means "～ even by V-ing", "～ even when V-ing", "～ even if V-ing", etc. 付録ついてまで買うしかない hardly makes sense, but it would feel more like "I have no choice but to buy it even when it comes with a gift". (1万円払ってまで買うしかない makes sense: "I have to buy it even if I have to pay 10,000 yen.")

The original sentence in question:

付録までついてこれは買うしかない

is essentially two independent sentences, simply connected using the te-form. This sentence can be split into two sentences without changing the meaning (i.e., 「付録がついている。買うしかない。」). Here, this te-form simply functions like English coordinating conjunctions such as "and". In this case, verb + てまで doesn't work well.

Examples:

1. 映画館に行ってまで見たくはない。
2. 映画館にまで行って見たくはない。
3. こんな苦労までして勉強しないといけないの？
4. こんな苦労をしてまで勉強しないといけないの？

In the above examples, te-form + まで and まで + te-form are interchangeable because the first clause is a sub-clause which describes the situation/condition of the main clause (ie, "even when", etc). If we split these sentences into two (eg, 「こんな苦労をした。勉強しないといけないの？」), the meaning of the sentence would change greatly.

5. 仕事まで失って、家族はなんと言うだろう。
6. [*]仕事を失ってまで、家族はなんと言うだろう。
7. ミッキーだけでなくミニーにまで会えて、とても楽しかった。
8. [*]ミッキーだけでなくミニーに会えてまで、とても楽しかった。

Here, 6 and 8 are wrong because the first clause is not a sub-clause but a coordinate clause.

You can find more examples of てまで here.

• Learn JLPT N1 Grammar: てまで (te made)

Alternatively, you can insert an extra te-form after まで to turn it into a coordinate clause.

• 付録が付くまでしていて、買うしかない。
• 付録が付いてまでいて、買うしかない。

But these sound redundant and a bit awkward.

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Note: This answer has been heavily revised after reviewing the comments from others.

Answer 2

I think I perfectly understand your puzzlement. Let's see if I can relieve some of it.

First we have two specimens to examine:

① 付録までついて
② 付録がついてまで

(I think in ②, after the "付録", a "が" is required, formally speaking, because "まで" that 'absorbs' it in ① is dissociated from the subject in ②.)

In ①, the implication is that something other than the "付録" is already included, since the "まで" attaches only to the "付録".

Whereas in ②, the implication is that some event other than "付録 is included" is present, since the "まで" modifies the entire "付録がついて".

This is all well and logical, but being logical isn't exactly what we are when use our language. Despite the difference described above, I'm inclined to say few people would have second thoughts about speaking like ① when what they really mean is ②. In fact I believe to talk like ② would be something of a hypercorrection. (As far as this case is concerned, that is. There are many occasions where using "まで" after the verb is fine, preferred, or is the right choice.)

(Had I written "the 'まで' only attaches to the '付録'", instead of "the 'まで' attaches only to the '付録'" three paragraphs back, would you have understood any differently?)

So, the bottom line is, "しかも付録までついてこれは買うしかない！！" is just exactly how we usually talk. (And there's something about this sentence that makes using ②付録がついてまで exceedingly inapt here. Can't say what, though.)

Answer 3

まで in 付録までついて modifies 付録.

まで in 付録ついてまで modifies 付録ついて but I feel it is unnatural. 付録つけてまで is natural. For example, この出版社は、付録付けてまでその本を売りたいようだ(This publishing company seems to want to sell the book even with present.)

付録までついて is only natural in this sentence and I don't come up the example used 付録ついてまで.

Answer 4

It's true that they aren't grammatically parallel, but let's look at it this way:

even bundled with a present : 付録がつき​まで{LL}する

bundled even with a present : 付録​まで{LL}つく

bundled with even a present : 付録​まで{LL}がつく

The three English phrases technically have different meanings, but we tend to choose the first one at all times, since it's far more natural than others, which I believe is because English even is an adverb. Likewise, we disproportionately prefer the second one in Japanese, because it sounds neatest as Japanese まで is a 取り立て助詞 ("focusing particle") that can modify nouns and other particles.

Meanwhile, 付録ついてまで doesn't even belong to the same structure with the three above, though itself is grammatical. For example, 付録までついて is 付録までつく + て, so て is in the most outer layer. Since て makes adverbial clause (or you can say it's a conjunction), the whole part becomes an independent chunk in sentence.

付録までついてこれは買うしかない
It is even bundled with an extra present, thus, you definitely have no choice but to buy it
or
As it is even bundled with an extra present, you definitely have no choice but to buy it

But 付録ついてまで is 付録（が）つく + て + まで, so まで is wrapping up everything. Since まで is a particle a.k.a. postposition (=preposition in English), it becomes like a prepositional phrase as a whole.

付録ついてまでこれは買うしかない
Until how it is bundled with an extra present, you definitely have no choice but to buy it

As you can see it's a senseless sentence.