I saw a few bits here and elsewhere on it, but I have yet to find something that explains its usage, in detail(e.g. in positive and negative contexts and in different tenses). Anyone know?
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There's also なんせ, which I think is similar. – Aeon Akechi May 3 '16 at 22:56
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1Which dictionaries have you tried and what have you found so far? – Chocolate♦ May 5 '16 at 15:17
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As far as I can remember, I haven't seen this particular term in any of my physical books, and the most comprehensive view I've gotten of it was at ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%A9%E3%81%86%E3%81%9B , and even that still leaves me mystified on the exact grammar mechanics of it – Roy Fuentes May 6 '16 at 2:12
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2References: journals.linguisticsociety.org/elanguage/pragmatics/article/… and ci.nii.ac.jp/els/… – snailboat♦ Jan 3 '17 at 3:23
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It only means "either way", "anyhow", "anyway", etc with a fatalist nuance, hence it can sound negative for some.
You can find it as other forms like どっちにしろ or どっちにせよ.
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While I'm sure the underlying grammar makes the analogy a rather liberal one, I have always tended to feel that these were similar to patters in English that use "be". That is, an old form of the subjunctive:
Ａであれ、Ｂであれ、なんでもいい。
Be it A, or be it B, it's fine regardless.
どっちにせよ
Whichever it be.
なんせ
Whatever the case be.
The pattern can always (well, usually) be reworded using も to mean essentially the same thing.
Ａでも、Ｂでも、なんでもいい。
どっちにしても
なんせ* (no strict conversion; maybe 何が何でも)
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2「なんせ」 can be reworded as なにせ、なにしろ、なんにせよ、なんにしても, or ともかく. (It doesn't mean 何が何でも.) どうせ and なんせ are not interchangeable. どうせ = 所詮. どうせ has a nuance of 諦め、自嘲、蔑視 – Chocolate♦ May 5 '16 at 15:03
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I know it doesn't mean 何が何でも; I was trying (too hard) to stretch the "replaceable with も in theory" point. Saying なにせ and なにしろ etc are possible replacements doesn't really help much -- they are all just different forms of the 命令形. ともかく is potentially helpful though, I would think. – Brandon May 5 '16 at 17:40
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なにしろ etc are ... they are all just different forms of the 命令形>> 「なんにしても」は 「different form of the 命令形」じゃないです。 「しても」だから命令形じゃないです。 「なんせ」の "replaceable with も in theory" には、「何が何でも」より「何にしても」のほうが使えると思いますが。 – Chocolate♦ May 6 '16 at 15:15
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今行ってもどうせ遅いので、行かないことにします。
Since it is late to go now, I decided not go anyway.
It is similar to "anyway". But, you should use "douse" in negative context only.
