Hi all I was wondering if we want to treat a quoted phrase as a "noun", is it necessary to put a と particle behind the quoted phrase?

For example:

A) The "received" in "received from Tom"

  1. 「トムから頂きます」の「頂きます」, or

  2. 「トムから頂きます」との「頂きます」 ?

B) The "tadaki" in "itadakimasu"

  1. 「いただきます」の「ただき」, or

  2. 「いただきます」との「ただき」 ?

Basically I was trying also just to figure out how should we know whether or not to put a と particle after a quote?

  • 1
    I'm a little confused with your examples... But if I'm understanding correctly, I think you are mistaking the idea of quoting something using と, with "using a quote sign". You obviously do not have to use と every single time there is a quote sign. You use と to mark indirect (and therefore quoted) speech. "The 'kan' from 'kanji'" is simply 漢字のかん etc.
    – Dave
    Sep 19 '11 at 1:30
  • @Dave yea you are you right, I was mistaking it.
    – Pacerier
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:20

is used to introduce a subordinate clause, and is close to the English that. When to omit them with quotations seems to differ between the two languages. I cannot give you an explanation, but let me just illustrate.

  • Complement of quotation verbs

     He said that he likes apples.
     He said he likes apples.
    × He said that "I like apples".
     He said "I like apples".

    × 彼は、自分がりんごが好きだ言った。[In Tokyo dialect]
    × 彼は、「私はりんごが好きだ」言った。[In Tokyo dialect]

  • Complement of nouns

     the fact that he likes apples
     the fact he likes apples
    × the fact that "he likes apples"
    × the fact "he likes apples"

    × 彼がりんごが好きのこと
    × 「彼はりんごが好き」とのこと
    × 「彼はりんごが好き」なこと
    × 「彼はりんごが好き」のこと

  • As a noun

    × the word "he" in that "he likes apples"
     the word "he" in "he likes apples"

    × 「彼はりんごが好き」との「彼」

  • Btw what does the asterisk mean in the sentence: 彼がりんごが好きこと ?
    – Pacerier
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:17
  • That's due to a bug. I wanted it to be in bold to make it stand out since this is somehing you don't expect from other parts of the paradigm.
    – user458
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:18
  • Oic, btw just to confirm, is it that 「いただきます」の「た」と「き」 means "The 'ta' and 'ki' in 'itadakimasu'." ?
    – Pacerier
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:27
  • @Pacerier Yes it does.
    – user458
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:28
  • ok cool =D just a quick last question, what about if we were to remove the 「 and 」, e.g. 漢字の漢
    – Pacerier
    Sep 19 '11 at 2:31

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