I am trying to express something akin to these sentences:

  1. Even with a spoon, he digs well (でも?)

  2. Even without a shovel, he digs well

I would also like to express this:

With a shovel as well, he digs well [implying he digs great with a lot of tools]

How would one go about this?

I can see how my example sentences might not be best example, but what I'm basically wondering is whether adding でも or  to the particle is possible, as it with, for example,

ででも does sound rather silly to me.

  • How about 洋服を着ていてもハンサムだ or 洋服を着ていなくてもハンサムだ? (I really have to wonder, where you get these sentences from, but anyway.)
    – Earthliŋ
    Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 14:16
  • Hmm... Doesn't でも contain で already?
    – user1478
    Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 14:36

1 Answer 1


Adding も after で is possible and usual. See Particles で and も and でも.

Adding でも after で is also possible, and ででも is not unseen, but the first で is often omitted.

  • Not confident enough to make this an answer, but wouldn't (で)さえ or (で)すら work as well (formality and context aside)?
    – istrasci
    Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 15:23
  • @istrasci: I think that they work as well (I have not thought them carefully, though). Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 15:38
  • 1
    @Daniel Safari: Simply put, yes, but this is not specific to で+でも, but it applies to many other combinations of a case marker and a particle. For example, when we add でも to を, I think that を is almost(?) always omitted. You might say that でも also contains the expected meaning of fictional construction “をでも,” but it is not really the case that でも has many meanings, but that the case marker preceding でも is sometimes omitted. But not always—the combination of から+でも is simply からでも, and I do not think that we can omit から. (more) Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 16:09
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    @Daniel Safari: (cont’d) If this is not complicated enough, we can consider particles other than でも. I do not know the complete picture about when a case marker is necessarily omitted, optionally omitted, or never omitted. Commented Feb 20, 2013 at 16:10
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    @Dono: I wrote what should be obvious to you to avoid other readers (including the OP) from being confused by your comment. If your comment “Both がも and はも exist” refers to particles がも and はも in classical Japanese, then I can only take your comment as either a nitpicking or a joke. It is along the line of responses “We can say はも because it is a name of fish” and “Not being grammatical does not mean we cannot say it.” If you are referring to some other words, I do not know what you are referring to and I appreciate a more specific pointer than “look them up in a decent dictionary.” Commented Feb 21, 2013 at 23:50

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