3

I'm learning at a beginner level. My current topic is to construct verbs using ません and ませ. In the example I was given "I will not be present at today's meeting" translated as:

今日{きょう}は、会議{かいぎ}には出{で}ません.

But my understanding of that sentence has the opposite meaning: "I will not skip today's meeting".

So my question is why (leave 出), is ending with ません instead of ませ?

5
  • Can you add more details about what led you to ask the question? Did you see an associated translation that didn't use a negative verb?
    – Leebo
    Commented Oct 25 at 8:34
  • @Leebo, I have tried to bring more context on my question. Thanks for your attention.
    – Dewfy
    Commented Oct 25 at 12:34
  • 1
    I don’t understand why you would expect ませ here? As a standalone form (rather than the mizenkei stem used as the basis of -ませ-ん), that’s the negative imperative, which is generally only used with honorific verbs, which 出る isn’t. Even if it were, 会議には出ませ would mean ‘Don’t attend the meeting!’. Commented Oct 27 at 13:24
  • 1
    @JanusBahsJacquet I think the OP is just a new enough learner that they slipped up and thought the negative form was just adding ん to it and then removed the ん to express affirmative.
    – Leebo
    Commented Oct 28 at 0:37
  • "My current topic is to construct verbs using ません and ませ" Are you sure it's ま, not ま? I'm also a Japanese language learner, but I've never been taught about using ませ in earlier course, unless I'm missing something.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Oct 28 at 2:22

3 Answers 3

2

Let's start by looking at 出る in a dictionary. As we scroll down the list, it might seem to you like the word somehow turns into its opposite: we have "to leave" and "to go out", but also "to come out", and then "to appear", and then somehow "to attend" and "to participate".

We need to think about these verbs a little more carefully in English, first. The ideas "leave" and "attend" are not opposites in English. The opposite of "leave" would be more like "remain". You might think, "if I attend the meeting, that means I'm not leaving the workplace". But this only makes sense because you're assuming that you're already at the place where the meeting will occur.

When you leave the house - or your office, or your cubicle at the office - it's likely in order to go to somewhere else. That destination is the に-marked part of 出る, and your starting point is the を-marked part.

The kanji 出 can be seen as formed from two copies of 山 (mountain); but more accurately it is a mountain with its central line extended into an "open box/mouth" 凵. (That's why 出 has only 5 strokes instead of 6.) The "story" I tell myself (I don't know how close this is to actual historical derivation) is that a river flows out from the mountains, into a basin.

If you 会議には出る, then you move yourself out from your current (unstated) position, to (に) the 会議, and this movement is furthermore a topic to emphasize with は (see also What is the difference between "に" and "には"?, は、には、に。。。what is the difference between them? etc.). In other words, you attend the meeting: regarding "to the meeting", you set out for it. And, of course, if you 会議には出ません, it's the opposite.

3
  • 2
    If memory serves, the original composition of the 出 glyph was of a foot (止) coming out of an opening or enclosure (凵), thus representing both the ideas of "going or coming out / exiting" and "going or coming out / appearing". We could render this distinction in English as the difference between "going out to something" (using "to" to render に) and "going out from or of something" (using "from" or "of" to render から or を). Same verbs in both the EN and JA, just different prepositions / particles. Commented Oct 26 at 0:40
  • 1
    I like my story better, but history is what it is. Commented Oct 26 at 1:21
  • I'm a fan of practicality: if it works, use it! 😄 Commented Oct 26 at 1:24
6

「〜に出る」 means "to attend" or "participate in". So it's simply saying, "I will not attend the meeting today." There's nothing special about it being 出ません.

2
  • 3
    I think OP's confusion is fundamentally about why 「〜に出る」 means "to attend" or "participate in", when the core sense of 出る is "to leave". Commented Oct 26 at 0:03
  • @KarlKnechtel you are 100% right - that was my initial thought.
    – Dewfy
    Commented Oct 28 at 16:14
6

Your translation would convey the normal meaning of 出る which, nontheless, requires a different case marker, を:

今日{きょう}は、会議{かいぎ}出{で}ません

The second, equally important meaning is "appear/come forth/come out," and hence "participate", when expressing a location determiner. However, here another case marker must be used: に, as in your sentence

今日{きょう}は、会議{かいぎ}は出{で}ません

2
  • but in both sentences you have used negative form ません?
    – Dewfy
    Commented Oct 25 at 14:37
  • 2
    出ません, or 出ない, is negative, so in any case will mean either "I will not leave" or "I will not go out to."
    – BigRigz
    Commented Oct 25 at 20:07

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .