1

One of the grammar points in my textbook カルテットII was 占める, and this was one of the example sentences:

人A:うちの大学って、中国人の留学生が多いね。

人B:うん。留学生全体の約60%を占めているらしいよ。

I asked my teacher if there would be a difference in meaning if I said 60%を占めるらしい, and she said the meaning would be the same; thus in this situation, ている and る are interchangeable.

I was then watching a video from Kaname Naito on YouTube on the uses of 気になる and 気にする.

気になる is typically said as is; 気になっている is typically used when referring to a romantic interest.

気にする is typically said as 気にしている, and even in its negative form 気にしていない; 気にする itself is not used often, and if it is used, it is used in its negative form, like in known phrases "気にしないで" or "気にしなくてもいい."

However, both of these situations has led me to ask this question: the situations of 気にする and 気になる has known use cases for when to use ている or る, but 占める does not. Is 占める truly interchangeable, or is there another rule I should be aware of?

EDIT: In other words, are there some verbs in Japanese that do not depend on if it is ている or る? I assume 占める is not a random exception.

5
  • The difference between 気になる and 気になっている is not about romantic interest. Rather, if the object of 気になる/ 気になっている is a person, it can suggest a romantic interest.
    – A.Ellett
    Commented Jun 29 at 16:39
  • Depending on the level of the class, the difference between 占める and 占めている may not be something the teacher feels is necessary to explain to you. In either case you'll be understood. And this is sometimes the unspoken philosophy of language teachers.
    – A.Ellett
    Commented Jun 29 at 16:44
  • @A.Ellett For your first comment...that sounds right. I guess I made the wrong assumption from the video. For your second comment, I do not want to make the same assumption elsewhere. If I can say 占める and 占めている are the same, what is stopping me from saying ドキドキする and ドキドキしている are the same? This is the type of question I am asking; if the goal is to be understood by your listener, then I do not want to make the wrong assumptions when I learn something new. According to my current understanding, ている does not have いる when negative like in 知る, but I see that is not always the case.
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jun 29 at 17:00
  • I understand your concern. I only made my second comment because that has been my experience with language teachers. Not every language teacher is like that, but, IMHO, too many are. I'm not providing an answer to your question because I'd prefer to defer to the native speakers in this matter. Sometimes the difference is not too significant, sometimes it makes a difference in what sounds most natural, and sometimes there's a semantic difference. In this case, it feels to me to be a not too significant difference which I would have difficulty explaining as a non-native speaker.
    – A.Ellett
    Commented Jun 29 at 17:08
  • I have a really bad habit of making the worst kind of assumptions from information I am told, so I am just...cautious. For a while I thought 君 was more polite than あなた.
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jun 29 at 17:09

1 Answer 1

1

When 占める means to physically occupy some space, 占める and 占めている are as different from each other as 座る and 座っている. However, when it is used for the proportion of something to a whole, this difference virtually goes away because no punctual action is involved here and 占める itself takes on a stative sense. 占めている still sounds slightly more "temporary" in the sense that the proportion in question is bound to a particular timeframe.

気にする is used in this form and it is very much different from 気にしている.

彼は小さいことを気にする。

5
  • So, "He concerns over the little things" does not use ている because that would imply a more temporary thing than what habits describe? An example Kaname (video I watched) used was 体重を気にしている, which would translate to "He is worried about his weight," but 体重を気にする is "He cares about his weight," and describes more of a habit than some momentary concern. I am still confused, however, as Kaname uses 気にしている for rather habitual actions; is he wrong?
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jun 30 at 0:01
  • @BigRigz - 気にする in the example above describes more a permanent character trait than a habit you consciously take up. 体重を気にする is something you consciously begin and continue for some duration. When you are in such a habit, you would be described as 気にしている.
    – aguijonazo
    Commented Jun 30 at 2:49
  • ...Alright. So I know that one nuance of ている is to describe a conscious habit of someone. For example I can say 毎晩どこまで遊びに行ってるか大変だな and use it to refer to the habit of constantly going out to play somewhere every night. Thus, the phrase 気にしないで refers to not worrying about a specific thing that is at least being worried about for some duration (e.g. 若いうちに体重を気にしなくてもいいと思う); 気にしていない is when someone does not care about something and is a consistent character trait, like 子供のこと気にしてない、その政治家は. Am I understanding this right?
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jun 30 at 13:11
  • I will add that this is a little unintuitive since I am used to hearing 勉強する as "I study" and 勉強している as "I am studying [right now]," and the use for 気にしている and 気にする seems to flip this logic.
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jun 30 at 18:11
  • Rereviewing your reply, I see I misunderstood; there are those assumptions.
    – BigRigz
    Commented Jul 1 at 1:58

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .