The context is about a high school entrance ceremony. The scene had cut from the day of the middle school graduation ceremony to the day of the entrance ceremony, and the main character has stated how he couldn't wait for it. Here's the quote:


From what I understand, the most literal meaning of the whole sentence is "From the graduation ceremony, immediately, as for it being the thing in which both real feelings and crap existed at the entrance ceremony, it is non-existant though." My question is about the 実感もくそもあった part of it. I've seen this phrase be explained as meaning something is insignificant or out of the question, but said explanations don't really cover the logic of how the phrase is constructed. They treat ~もくそもある and ~もくそもない, which just muddies up the meaning for me. I want to know not just what it means, but also how it means what it means. How does stating that 実感 exists alongside くそ translate into calling it insignificant? What's the logic behind how the sentence is structured?

EDIT: I'm specifically asking for a breakdown of the phrase to help me understand how it translates into what it means in english. How do we get "(thing) is irrelevent" from what would literally translate into "Both (thing) and crap exist"? What does the inclusion of crap in the action of existing say about (thing)?


2 Answers 2


First of all, to parse this sentence correctly, you should split the sentence into two at the point of that で. This で is the "te-form of だ", and it's used to mark a reason.

  1. 卒業式から即入学式
    An entrance ceremony right after the graduation ceremony.
  2. (だから)実感もくそもあったもんじゃない。
    (So) ...??? (your main question)...

As for the second sentence, A literal translation of 実感もくそもあったもんじゃない is "there's absolutely no way 'sense of reality' or crap exists". But here, Xもくそもない is a set phrase that means X is not even worth discussing. あったものではない is used to intensify it. This pattern has been asked several times, so please read the following questions:

Note that this phrase is always used in some form of negation (we never say Xもくそもある unless joke is intended).

Lastly, けど at the end of a sentence is like adding "..., though".

In conclusion, the entire sentence means:


It's the entrance ceremony immediately after the graduation ceremony, so there is absolutely no sense of reality or crap or anything, though.

→ Going straight from the graduation to the entrance ceremony, there's no time to really feel anything, though.


In terms of meaning, Xもくそもない is emphatic Xがない, that is, absolutely no X (exists) or to have no X whatsoever.

I don't think there is much point to seek logic in this kind of expressions, but literally Xもくそもない has the structure neither X nor shit exists. Here shit is considered something worthless, and reading kind of backwards, its literal meaning is even something as worthless as shit does not exist, let alone X (something more significant than shit). The same 'logic' basically applies to similar expressions:

  • Xもへったくれもない - へったくれ is something trivial
  • Xも何もない - this is more literally "neither X nor anything"

I stumbled upon the following etymology though I have no idea for its veracity.


Q: 「○○もくそもない」という言い方は、「愛想も小想もない」の「小想もない」の誤用でしょうか?

A: 本来の言葉と意味としては「愛想も小想もない」で、「愛想も小想も尽き果てる」とかは 愛情や好意がすっかりなくなっていやになってしまうことで「小想」は「愛想」の意味を強め語調を整えるために添えた語です。

Goo has the following entry:


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