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I recently looked up the word まんまと in 大辞林. The pitch accent is marked 13. I don't understand what that means, so I decided to look it up in the explanatory notes, which I'll attempt to summarize here (omitting bits about terminology and such):

  1. Words in Japanese are divided into morae which are pronounced either high or low
  2. Pitch always changes between the first and second morae
  3. 大辞林 marks the HLL... pattern with 1
  4. 大辞林 marks the LHH... pattern with 0
  5. 大辞林 marks patterns like LHHL with 3 and LHHHL with 4 (indicating the mora directly before the pitch falls)

Unfortunately, I still don't understand. It seems like it should have a single number indicating where the downstep is, or a 0 if there is no downstep, but in this case there are two numbers: 1 and 3. (I assume it's not thirteen because there are only four morae in this word.) I don't see any explanation of what it means when there are two numbers like this.

So, my question is: what is the pitch accent of まんまと, and how can I understand this 13 notation?

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  • I feel like this is not directly related to the Japanese language; you're asking for explanation on conventions used by a Japanese dictionary. So I'm voting to close.
    – istrasci
    Feb 18, 2013 at 15:48
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    @istrasci The Japanese language question is about まんまと, and the rest is me trying to detail the research I did to answer the question, to show where I got stuck figuring out the answer myself.
    – user1478
    Feb 18, 2013 at 15:56
  • Maybe, but your confusion boils down to not understanding those conventions. Is that not correct? If your core question is really about the pitch of まんまと, I think you should edit the question to be something like, "I'm trying to figure out the pitch for a word, but I don't understand how a certain dictionary is indicating it. Can someone tell me the most commonly accepted pitch?", and also remove the part of your question that says, and how can I understand this 13 notation?. Fine line, but I stand by my close (can't remove a vote to close anyway).
    – istrasci
    Feb 18, 2013 at 16:06
  • @istrasci I asked because it was a logical dependency of the other question.
    – user1478
    Feb 18, 2013 at 16:07
  • The question could be clarified, but it is clear that the poster is wondering what the accent of まんまと is. The rest is an explanation of how he/she tried to answer their own question, which indicates the source of the problem. This shows more than sufficient effort (often lacking in most questions), so I see no need to close it. Rather, I'll vote it up.
    – Dono
    Feb 18, 2013 at 18:11

1 Answer 1

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It is strange that the explanatory notes do not explain this, but two numbers in Daijirin mean that both pitches (in this case HLLL and LHHL) are used.

As for the pitch of this specific word まんまと, I pronounce it as HLLL, and I am not sure if I have ever heard まんまと with pitch LHHL.

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  • 3
    I do not have a printed copy of 大辞林 anymore, but if I remember correctly, the actual formatting is something like ①③, which makes it easier to understand that it should be interpreted as ① and ③ rather than ⑬.
    – Dono
    Feb 18, 2013 at 18:19
  • LHHL sounds more normal to me, but I'm no native speaker. 日本国語大辞典 also gives both accentuations and notes that it is LHHL in Kyoto.
    – Zhen Lin
    Feb 18, 2013 at 19:29
  • あっ、私はHLLLか、最後の「と」がさらに下がります。私もLHHLは聞いたことがありません（京都人です^^）
    – user1016
    Feb 19, 2013 at 0:08
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    @Chocolate: HLLLとかLHHLと書いているのは「高」と「低」の2段階に単純化されたアクセントであって、実際の音の高さは2段階にはなりません。私の場合、実際の発音は「ま↘ん↘ま↘と」と1拍ごとに下がっていきます。
    – Tsuyoshi Ito
    Feb 19, 2013 at 1:50
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    あら、読み違いました。京都アクセントではLHHLじゃなくてLLHLだそうです。つまり、第三拍だけが高いんです。
    – Zhen Lin
    Feb 19, 2013 at 23:07

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