Hot answers tagged demonstratives
12
In conversation, you switch between あの and その depending on whether or not the subject is known by both of the speakers, or only one.
話し手も相手も共通に知っている場合 ー>「あ」
When both the speaker and listener
know the subject -> "あ"
どちらか一方が知っている場合 ー> 「そ」
When only the speaker or listener
knows the subject -> "そ"
For example:
A: ...
10
あそこ (expected あこ)
There was an ako.
From the 1775 text 物類称呼 (Iwanami Bunko ISBN4-00-302691-8 p. 146):
あそこ こゝといふを 西國にて・あんなけ こんなけと云 肥前にて・そこねい こゝねいと云 尾州にて・あそこなて こゝなてと云 京にて・あこと云
However, there are ample usages of asoko in much earlier works from the 13th century and on, so this is likely an abbreviation of asoko > ako.
Historically, in Old Japanese ...
7
The historical answer to this still appears to be somewhat of a mystery. However, there is speculation on why the あ (of the こそあど) appears to be irregular.
Nomichi Sumire gives a hint in this answer as to why あ is different. 「ここ・そこ・あそこ・どこ」 were all written in Kanji in the past, like this: 「此処・其処・彼処・何処」 When written out in Kanji, all of the words appear to ...
6
その中に would mean "to within that [selection of apartments]". Kind of nonsensical.
その中で would mean "at within that [selection of apartments]". Also kind of nonsensical.
その中から means "from within that [selection of apartments]". Clunky because literal translations are clunky, but the logic is there.
The whole sentence:
私はその中から好きな家を借りました。
"I rented an ...
5
OK I posted this as a comment because I wasn't 100% sure of the correctness but to escape the "post answers as answers" problem I'll just say it here.
So here you've got a speaker referring to this fella マルス. He's quite far removed from the current setting, it seems, or perhaps metaphorically distant as in on a different level as the wielder of the ...
4
For time related events you'd usually あの if you are introducing the topic:
覚えてますか?あのとき… Oboetemasu ka? Ano toki…
If the topic was already broached, you'd use その to refer to the already introduced time:
はい、その話覚えてます。 Hai, sono hanashi oboetemasu.
If you keep using あの over and over in the same conversation for the same topic, it can seem weird. If ...
3
Well, if you use the kanjis, you see the pattern even better!
此れ、 其れ、 彼、 何れ
此の、 其の、 彼の、 何の
此処、 其処、 彼処、 何処
From there, the suffixes "れ"、 "の"、 and "こ" indicate whether you're talking about a thing, a "possessive", or a location.
The prefixes are, as you had guessed, the "distance": close, somehow far, far, and the question "which".
So, "これ" is the close ...
3
Your explanation of sono and ano in terms of places is correct.
as far as when dealing with time this is how it seems to me.
あの時 - This one time
その時 - At that time
so その時 gets used when it is a continuation of previous topic, whereas あの時 would be more of a introducing a topic.
3
In 2., こちら is the focus, not a topic, and is new information. You cannot use は for it. 東です is the old information. Your reasoning of "present in the universe of discourse" is irrelevant for the choice of these particles (and, actually, I don't understand what you are talking about). The information structure is the following.
After A's question, before B's ...
3
私はその中から好きな家を借りました
I chose a house I liked from this set.
私はその中に好きな家を借りました
I chose a house I liked, and rented it from this middle (i.e., the set is the owner, because Aに借りる means you're borrowing from A).
It's nonsensical, because 中 is not even something singular you can borrow from.
私はその中で好きな家を借りました
And when I was inside it, I picked up a ...
1
There are definitely cases where it doesn't make sense to translate その into an English demonstrative adjective.
アインシュタインとその人生 Einstein and his life ('his', I guess, is a possesive pronoun)
まあ、その、なんていうか... Well, oh, you know... (filler word)
Another thing to point out: Japanese speakers tend to use personal pronouns (including possesive pronouns) ...
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