Tell me more ×
Japanese Language & Usage Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Japanese language. It's 100% free, no registration required.
up vote 7 down vote favorite

In Japanese, there is a potential form to express that it's possible for something to be done.

My own examples of potential form:

辛【から】い食【た】べ物【もの】が食【た】べられる。 (I can eat spicy foods.)

ギターが弾【ひ】ける。　(I can play the guitar.)

But I also know of 見【み】える and 聞【き】こえる. I've heard them used as also meaning it's possible for something to be done (seeing for 見【み】える and hearing for 聞【き】こえる). But this isn't the potential conjugation of the original words, 見【み】る and 聞【き】く. The potential form would be 見【み】られる and 聞【き】ける.

What is the difference between the normal potential form and their "special" forms?

share|improve this question
By the way, on a phonentic, tangent, "rareru" iften becomes "reru" in speech. This change has a name: it is called "ranuki" (ら抜き). Removal of the "ra". – Kaz May 8 '12 at 22:47

1 Answer

up vote 5 down vote accepted

みえる = to be able to see. (precisely: to be seen/to be in sight)
⇒ Can you see the fujisan? => 富士山が見えますか？

みれる = to be able to watch.
⇒ Can you watch DVD with this? => それでDVDが見れますか？

The same for 聞ける (Can you listen) vs 聞こえる (Can you hear / precisely: to be heard/to be audible)

みえる and きこえる and not a special form of みる and きく, they are specific verbs by themselves.

share|improve this answer
2  
I disagree. mieru is the verb mi-ru in irrealis form (未然形) plus the suffix -yu --> miyu. This conjugates to miyuru > miyeru, with the middle -y- dropping out since Japanese no longer distinguishes between /e, ye/. Note that the above mireru is a so-called ら抜き form. School grammar dictates that this should be mirareru. – Dono Apr 26 '12 at 0:44
I did not know about the suffix -yu. Can you tell me a bit more about it? And it's meaning? – oldergod Apr 26 '12 at 1:02
4  
I think it's safe to say that for all Modern Japanese purposes, 見る and 見える can be (re)analyzed as two different verbs. I would say they are a transitive-intransitive pair, as in 切る-切れる etc. In terms of Classical Japanese, aren't 見る and 見ゆ also two different verbs, or am I mistaken? There is some regularity to these transitive-intransitive pairs, but I'm not sure if it's ever been completely productive/regular. For example in 止める-止む, the verb with the -er- is the transitive one, unlike 切る-切れる。 – dainichi Apr 26 '12 at 1:56
1  
@oldergod: -yu is an old suffix that is no longer productive. It conjugates as [y]e, [y]e, yu, yuru, yure, - and attaches to the irrealis of quadrigrade (modern pentagrade), n-irregular, r-irregular, and r-irregular verbs. It may express 1) passive, 2) potential, and 3) spontaneous. You can also see it in fossilized forms such as arayuru and iwayuru. – Dono Apr 26 '12 at 2:03
Interesting, thanks ! – oldergod Apr 26 '12 at 2:57
show 2 more comments

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.