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Given that there has been discussion by the Japanese government to use the Japanese Language Proficiency Test (JLPT) as one of the measures by which permanent residences or citizenship might be granted, how good of a measure of it of actual real world Japanese skill? Does passing the level N1 test mean that you are on par with a native speaker or does it just show that you have advanced knowledge of the language?

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Disagree in regards to the off-topic vote, the test is about the Japanese language and is given in Japanese grammar so it should be on-topic for the site even if it is a bit of an edge case. – Rob Z Jun 1 '11 at 12:47
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I know you disagree :) I don't think we have to keep debating it. If enough people vote that it's off topic, it's off topic. – Ali Jun 1 '11 at 12:54
@Ali - Well, I am narrowing my range of what I consider to be on/off topic. :) I do think we are going to have to take some of the questions that are leaning towards off-topic and move them over to the FAQ though, or keep them around in community wiki and use them to vote-to-close the others as duplicates so people can still get the information. – Rob Z Jun 1 '11 at 12:56
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@Ali - Not a problem, I think we actually agree on some things even though have a slightly different take on them in practice. Once the languages site is around (area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/16613/languages) it might be a better place for some of the "how do I learn things" questions that really aren't specific to Japanese even though people want to ask them. – Rob Z Jun 1 '11 at 13:07
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@Dave: Learning the value of a standard test will help OP decide where to focus his study and if he wants to be conversational that test might be the wrong goal for instance. Not every question should have to teach a new word or grammar point to teach about the language. – hippietrail Jun 27 '11 at 13:53
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4 Answers

up vote 13 down vote accepted

True fluency is rare, and involves more than passing a standardized test. I will refer you to an answer I gave in EL&U.SE which I quoted from my treasured copy of Jack Seward's Japanese in Action. He is talking about Japanese, but I removed all the specific-language references because it's a good measure for fluency in any language.

To be accurately judged fluent in [a language], I believe a [non-native speaker] should have the following qualifications:

  1. He should be able to conduct all his daily affairs (business, visits to the doctor, TV-ing, bar-hopping, lovemaking, etc.) completely in [the language] without strain.

  2. His accent may not be perfect, but it should occasion no confusion or merriment among his listeners.

  3. He should be able to read [publications in the language] (newspapers, weekly magazines, and letters in the [cursive] ... style), with only an occasional reference to a dictionary.

He goes on to propose that a test for fluency in the language should require the test taker to:

  1. Translate a newspaper article

  2. Speak in [the language] on the telephone, as a test of accent.

  3. Write a letter in [the language].

  4. Interpret a taped conversation between two [native speakers of the language].

  5. Comprehend a newscast.

  6. Identify five major dialects.

  7. Read a letter written in [cursive handwriting].

  8. [Not applicable] (Actually, applicable here, but I don't have my copy of the book at the moment.

  9. Give the meanings of one hundred technical words or phrases ... from the fields of medicine, law, economy, science, and the arts ... [which are readily understood by the average native-speaker who is a college graduate].

  10. Walk down the street and [read and interpret] the first twenty signs to be sighted.

  11. Give a ten-minute, impromptu talk about an everyday topic of conversation (sports, politics, travel, traffic, etc.), the topic to be selected [at random].

BTW, much of the book is dated now, but is still a great source for understanding Japanese culture and language, and it's also very funny.

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Agreed, although if you could do the majority of those things, you might consider yourself fluent. Which begs the question, "what is fluency?" I believe it's more of a personal definition. For example, I don't consider myself truly fluent in Japanese, but many of my friends (Japanese and other) say that I am. – istrasci Jun 1 '11 at 14:30
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@istrasci: Yes, I don't consider myself fluent either. But remember this little caveat: the better your Japanese gets, the less your Japanese acquaintances will praise you for it. – Robusto Jun 1 '11 at 14:53
Interesting! Question was specifically about JLPT, though. – Nicolas Raoul Jun 2 '11 at 1:18
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@Nicolas Raoul: The answer to that specific question is covered here. If someone asks for a glass of water and you give them a barrel of water and a cup, is their thirst not slaked? – Robusto Jun 2 '11 at 1:41
This blurs the concept of "fluency" way into the area of "competency" or "efficiency". The word "fluent" is related to "fluid" and just means you don't have to stop and translate in your head etc. You can be fluent with a small vocabulary and in limited situations. The original question didn't use this word though so was much clearer IMHO. – hippietrail Jun 27 '11 at 1:10
up vote 11 down vote

First and foremost the JLPT does not have a speaking component. This means you may be able to recognise and understand grammar when reading or listening, but you may be unable to actually speak the language with any proficiency. This is my case exactly, I can understand far more than what I can express.

Secondly, the entire test is multiple choice. Multiple choice makes things a bit easier for the student and if you can eliminate the two "obviously false answers" you're left with a 50/50 shot of getting it right - I've seen people fake their way through exams with minimal knowledge of the content, but great "test taking skills".

It's very hard to gauge proficiency in language. However, the JLPT is definitely a good way of guiding your study. I've mainly been using the JLPT tests not for the piece of paper I receive for doing it, but as a study guide on where I should be focusing my study. It's a good guide to get you from beginner to advanced in terms of which kanji/grammar points you should know.

However, I guess if you're able to pass the JLPT N1 test, you're more than on your way to being "fluent".

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They are not True / False questions, but with multiple choice with 4 answers, so you only have 25% chance to get it right. – YOU Jun 1 '11 at 13:25
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@YOU - That's only if you make a pure guess, if you can remove two answers as obviously wrong then you are only left with two which is where the 50/50 chance comes from. – Rob Z Jun 1 '11 at 13:30
@Rob, Hum, I see. Looks like I didn't get that theory. – YOU Jun 1 '11 at 13:53
This sounds like the same kind of testing used for teaching English in the Japanese school system. A lot of people have huge English vocabularies but cannot form a sentence. – hippietrail Jun 27 '11 at 1:16
up vote 4 down vote

I can tell you that N1 is not meaning on par with a native speaker. Actually many japanese could not pass N1 with an high score without studying. That's because of many questions about grammar and kanji usage. Still the test doesn't measure your active skill (speak and write) but only your passive ones. I know people who passed N1 but are not really fluent in everyday japanese.

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up vote 2 down vote

Well i don't know if you will find this info useful, but here goes:

Daniel Levitin claims:

The emerging scientific picture is that 10,000 hours of practice is required to achieve the level of mastery associated with being a world-class expert in anything. In study after study, of composers, basketball players, fiction writers, ice skaters, concert pianists, chess players, master criminals, and what have you, this number comes up again and again.

Malcolm Gladwell claims that the key to success in any field is, to a large extent, a matter of practicing a specific task for a total of around 10,000 hours. (Outliers)

So 10,000 hours to mastery.. how long is that exactly? well, if you sleep 8 hours a day you'll be an expert sleeper by the time you are 3.5 years old.

In contrast, it is claimed that to pass JLPT 1, it takes around 900 hours.

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So it's easier to pass JLPT 1 than win an Olympic gold medal at ice skating? That gives us all some hope (-: – hippietrail Jun 27 '11 at 1:12
I'm pretty sure Gladwell was citing Levitin. – Louis Jun 29 '11 at 15:32
Well 10000 hours is a little over 416 days. So it'll take you about 1 year and 3 months to master... Japanese. In theory. Well. If that's all you did and you didn't sleep of course. – dotnetN00b Oct 23 '11 at 19:28

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